Alright boys,
I got a long look at the Codex yesterday and have spent the day painting and thinking about the different strengths and weaknesses. In case you don't feel like reading the next 5000 words, I'll just say this: it is a powerful codex with most of the options of the 'Nilla codex and a cornucopia of other ones. These guys are fast and furious, but the downside is that they cost a lot of points and so you won't be fielding lists of many models if you want to start using all their toys. Aggressive players will love the options, and some other players will probably begin to wonder why they still bother. All I ask is that everyone takes my thoughts with a grain of salt because I haven't played with any of this!
Without further ado...
HQ:
Dante: The head honcho himself...not too shabby! Has a 2+/4++ and a Jump Pack, but no EW (despite being what...the oldest living space marine?). He also is a vanilla (master crafted) S4 power weapon, with quite a few attacks at least. Of note is that he is I6 instead of 5...guess hes been taking his Geratol. His Death Mask is pretty awesome, letting you neuter an enemy IC at least somewhat. He doesn't scatter when deep striking, which is quite nice. Hmm, here's a thought...how about deep striking him with 30 Death Company! He also gives his squad Hit and Run which is pretty sweet, and lets you take Sanguinary Guard as troops which is cool because it's an excuse to get a ton of those awesome models in there. While not as Killy as some of the other choices, he is a great force multiplier without being over the top.
Astorath the Grim: Whoa. Awesome looking model. Very powerful in CC (and with a 2+/3++), S6 ignore armour saves, makes your DC awesome and has a jump pack. If you plan on taking DC he his a great choice, but if not some of his uber abilities are wasted.
Mephiston: Well, his stat line makes him out to be quite the monster. On par with the Swarm Lord actually. Has 3 Psychic powers, one makes him S10, the other lets him move like jump infantry and the last gives preferred enemy – he also has a force weapon, oh and he fleets. He also has a power that forces a Ld test at -4 on a character – if he fails, Meph gets to re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls. Things to note: he does not have an invulnerable save, nor is he an independent character. That means he is on his own, unless your transport him...to be honest I can easily consider putting him in a Land Raider or a Storm Raven to go wreak havoc alone. He is one of the strongest CC characters in the game, but lacks a few of the tools necessary to get there in one piece. You probably get one turn to blow him away, because until he gets up close you can bet he'll be hiding behind terrain/vehicles – and with cover, he will be dodging the low ap high S shots half of the time.
That said, many of his abilities are psychic powers and as such good psyker defence will make him considerably easier to deal with. There is also the chance of PotW, which he has no protection whatsoever against. This guy is easily one of the stronger characters out there, but has shortcomings that can be exploited – plasma/melta to the face will still give him headaches. So do invulnerable saves; popular CC choices like Seer Councils and TH/SS Terminators will hurt him – in fact, Mephiston will very likely die to 5 of the latter, even if he gets the assault (and his preferred enemy power)! He is great at mushing vehicles, though. All in all he is quite nasty, but the lack of IC status and an invulnerable save makes him much more manageable that I thought at first. Oh yeah, he also doesn't have EW so things like boneswords, force weapons, wraithcannons and the like will have fun sending him into the warp or whatever.
Tycho: At first glance, the DC version of him looks much nastier – it is, except for the part where (once again) they took away his IC status. I don't think he's super in normal mode, and rather balanced in DC mode. He attacks like an MC but only at S4 – being DC is great because, by being relentless, he can use his Sternguard ammo to the fullest!
The Sanguinor: Ooooh baby. This dude looks rockin'. Ok so he's S5 with a MC power wep – so far so good. He's I6! He has a 2+/3++ Sv...he also has Eternal Warrior which freakin' owns. He gets to pick an enemy HQ and gets re-rolls to hit and to wound against hit – he is also WS8. Not only that, all friendly units within 6” get +1 attacks. He turns one of your Sarges into a Nob, and also forces invulnerable saves to be re-rolled when he does a wound. The downside? He costs nearly as much as a Swarmlord and he is not. An. Independent. Character! Like Mephiston, he is on his own. So despite being his own kind of badass, he is on his own.
Let's compare him to Mephiston; both are/can be jump infantry, and Mephiston has Fleet. On average, Meph will be faster (although he cannot deep strike vs the Sanguinor's Descent of Angels). This one goes to Mephiston, but not by much. At range, for what it's worth, Meph has a Plasma pistol vs the Sanguinor's nothing, so another point for Meph but it is of little importance. Survivability at range is a tricky subject – the Sanguinor is likelier to get torrented to death by lower Strength shenanigans, while Meph is obviously much less resistant against low ap weaponry like meltas, plasma, lascannons, etc. If we take cover into effect, though, Meph will have that sweet 4+ save which is almost a 3+, and has 5 wounds instead of 3. With lots of terrain Meph has a bit of an advantage, but without the Sanguinor is much, much better. Advantage: the Sanguinor. In CC, Meph is all about insta-killing bozos with his S10 and tearing vehicles to shreds; he's also all about beating the crap out of your Hqs. The Sanguinor, on the other hand, is much better at killing elite invulnerable infantry – you send him in to take out Seer Councils, TH/SS Terminators and the like, because Mephiston definitely can't.handle them as well. It also goes without saying that against your opponent's toughest CC models (where these two guys will be going), the Sang's 3+ Invul will make the difference. In all honesty it is a toss-up; that said, if your list already has enough S10 in it (to take out Nobz, Thunderwolves, vehicles) the Sanguinor is a very specialized HQ who will eat through the hardest units. The buffs he gives to your army in various forms are pretty cool, it is just unfortunate that he cannot join a squad. Him with Sanguinary Guard will be very fun to see played together.
Gabriel Seth: Sweet, it's the cheapest HQ SC. Well...he's actually pretty decent but nothing crazy. Turns out his chainsword doubles his strength, strikes at initiative but does not ignore armour save. It's Rending though. He can also forgo his regular attacks and automatically hit everyone he's in contact with once, and all rolls to hit of 1 directed towards him in assault result in that unit taking a S4 hit. He's nothing special as far as survivability goes, but he's going to make you pay when he gets into assault with you. He also makes you fail red thirst rolls half of the time, which is pretty good; half your army will have furious charge and fearless!
Captain: Alright so pretty much the same thing as the Marines Codex. Overcosted a bit, and definitely not as attractive a choice as the other HQs. I'd probably take the Reclusiarch over this guy most of the time if I wanted a CC HQ.
Reclusiarch: A Chaplain with 3 Wounds who makes your Death Company re-roll to wound as well. Great if you want to go that route, and a balanced part of an all-DC list (as balanced as that would be, haha).
Librarian: Standard Equipment, but different powers. So let's get crackin:
Sanguine Sword: Cool, so you're S10...but still keep your I and weapon. Very good power.
Blood Lance: Not as “screwy” as Jaws of the World Wolf (the random range helps limit it), but should be useful in a mech-heavy environment. Still, a free S8 Ap1 Lance Hit is never bad.
Unnamed: Gives a 5+ Cover to all within 6”. Same as Storm Caller, and really awesome when you want to shield vehicles but don't want to use your smoke launchers. Nothing flashy, but I really like it.
Smite: Same as the Marines Codex. Can be annoying, I guess, but some of these other powers are just so much better.
The Quickening: Same as the Marines Codex. Again, nothing spectacular...except when applied to the Librarian Dreadnought. I10, S10 attacks that ignore armour saves. Plus the Dread now has fleet. Lets you turn Nobz, Thunderwolves and all manner of multi-wound bozos into a fine paste before they get to do anything.
Unleash Rage: Hey, preferred enemy for a whole unit. This is quite the fine power. Nothing flashy either, but PE is always great.
Fear of the Darkness: Take a Ld test at -2 and if you fail you break. This is decent, but it is a shooting attack meaning you can only assault the thing that just ran away. Not bad if your target is already far away though. Very good against squads that like to hug their board edge, like Broadsides or Devastators.
Might of Heroes: Give +D3 attacks to one Model. Pretty good on the Dreadnoughts, or maybe if you feel like buffing one of your characters.
Blood Boil: Hey, a free wound with no AS allowed. And if you roll 5 or less for the Psychic Test you pick where the wound goes in the targeted unit. Sounds good, but won't happen all that often (maybe 30% of the time?) so you can't rely on it. Still great to snipe out powerfists and the like.
Blood Stasis: Pick a unit, and it has to take a Ld test to do anything on your opponent's turn. If they fail, they stay put Not bad, but generally you're looking at an 8-9 Ld so it's not fantastic. Pretty great against 'Nids though if you need to stop a unit of Gaunts or Raveners or something.
Wings of Sanguinius: Here's my favourite one. Turns the Libby into Jump Infantry.
*Phew *. So, the real winners? For a Librarian, I think the 5+ Cover Sv power is golden, as is the Blood Lance. Unleash Rage is also one I like a lot.
Honour Guard: Alright, so basically a command squad from the Marines Codex except instead of the squad having FNP, it gives FNP and Furious Charge to everyone within 6” including the squad. Something I'd really like to hear the rationale for. But anywho, otherwise the same, great if you want a squad you can customize for CC while not spending too much.
Elites:
Terminators: These guys are pretty much the same as in the C:SM Codex, so I don't have much to add here. I don't think they do quite enough, as they are stuck between CC specialist and having some pretty nice ranged weapons. Also, they are plasma/power weapon bait.
Assault Terminators: Same as usual except..what's this? Looks like you pay a 5 point premium to get the TH/SS version. Makes sense, as they are superior in most cases (except maybe if you have something that gives furious Charge...oh wait, the angels do in spades lol). Not much else to say that is new here.
Sanguinary Priest: Oh, dear. Yeah, these guys rule. For 50 pts he gives FNP + Furious Charge to everyone within 6”. That's quite good – it gets a little pricy to give him a Jump Pack but well worth it if you're wanting to extend the life of your jump troops.
Corbulo: Alright, so he's definitely better in combat than his generic counterparts and gives you one (1) free re-roll a game, applicable anywhere. You can re-roll to see who goes first, or whatever, if that's your fancy. The game-breaker (imo) is applying that single re-roll to see if the game ends. That...is huge. Games are won or lost depending on whether or not the game ends on turn 5 (or 6, 7) and good old 'Corb lets you screw around with that. He also gives FNP to himself on 2+ instead of the regular 4+. The only downside is that he can't take a jump pack, so I'd use him as part of a land raider-oriented assault force, or maybe in a rhino so that his FNP/FC bubble is huge.
Chaplain: Hey he isn't an HQ choice. Cool beans. Means you can have 3 chaplains if you want I guess? I'm pretty nonplussed about this.
Furioso Dreadnought: Holy plethora of options, batman! At his most “vanilla” he is similar to an Ironclad but has WS6 and is..cheaper. Can swap his two DCCs for Blood Talons, who are (S6) lightning claws who give you an extra attack for every unsaved wound you cause. This configuration will wreck through infantry squads, pretty much always forever. He can also grab a Frag Cannon, which is a S6 AP- Assault 2 Rending Template. Yeah, he's good. Can also take a Magna-Grapple which lets you pull a Scorpion on enemy vehicles. Pretty effective because it will probably drag whatever vehicle you hit into assault range.
Librarian Dreadnought: Probably my favourite choice of the book. Can pick two of the Psychic Powers I mentioned before, has a Psychic Hood, a S6 Force Weapon and is ironclad. Not too pricey, comparable to what a Venerable Dread costs. Definitely a candidate for Wings of Sanguinius or the Quickening which can give him a potential 18” assault range. Give him a Magna Grapple (yes, you can do that too) and he can potentially hit vehicles 24” away. Ooooohhhh yeeeaaah /duffman Pick the Blood Lance and he really becomes a vehicle wrecker.
Dreadnought: Same as before. A great choice if you ask me. But there are greater, lol...
Techmarine: It's a Techmarine. No cool options like the Space Wolves Iron Priest, so I can't say I'm impressed. If you want a bunch of heavy wep servitors he's golden, though.
Sternguard: Nothing new here. Still rather good, they just cannot ever be made scoring. Sad, but yeah, I still see no problem with them.
Sanguinary Guard: First thing's first: awesome looking models. Pretty sweet rules too, as they can take a Chapter Banner and are armed with 12” storm bolters and master crafted PWs. Artificer armour is the bomb, and so is having jump packs. That said, 5 of them cost as much as a Terminator Squad and can't take any extra bodies or invulnerable saves. I suspect lots of AP2 weaponry will be headed their way. I like them a lot, but really the only reason to take them over Termies is for their mobility. Well that and you can get them up to 5 attacks on the assault each with the Sanguinor and a Banner. Final though: I really wish the armour didn't have nipples.
Troops:
Death Company: Whoa! 3-30 models! That's a spicy meatball. Furious Charge, Relentless, FNP and Fearless FTW. They also have bolters, bolt pistols and CCW which combined with Relentless means you can pump your bolter (instead of your bolt pistol) into a squad before assaulting it and still get the +1 attack for extra CC weapon. You can give them Jump Packs which makes them a bit pricy, time will tell if it is useful. Fists/PWs are an option and so you can get a ton of attacks with this squad at S5 + I5 which will ignore armour saves. Their only downside is that they cannot score so you're going to have to spend some points on other bozos to actually take the objectives!
Lemartes: Kind of like a Reclusiarch but who is an upgrade character. When he takes a wound he goes beserk, becoming much better. This is a great ability because, as part of a squad, you can just assign him a single wound and watch him go bananas. A great choice!
Death Company Dreadnought: A crazed Dreadnought. Metal as shit. Close to what the Furioso gets, but more attacks and has rage. Also has a hidden cost of 5 DC per Dread, so you're going to need some of those as well.
Tactical Squad: Pretty standard fare, except lets you take Land Raiders as dedicated transports as well. Means you can have a bunch of Raiders if you feel like it. Nothing new here otherwise.
Assault Squad: Bahaha. At first glance it may look the same. Except it can a few extra upgrades like Meltaguns/Melta Pistols. Oh and you can take their jump packs off which, instead of giving you a free Rhino, gives you a 35-point discount towards any dedicated transport. Makes sense, seeming as how their Rhinos are more expensive. As it stands though, you can get assault squads with tank busting potential. Which is great! More about why these are the best (scoring) troops choice in the book when I get to dedicated transports.
Scout Squad: Same thing as the SM Codex once again. Nothing crazy.
Fast Attack:
Vanguard: Hey cool they're cheaper than the C:SM ones. Does that mean we will see them more often? It's possible, but unless you're going for a large squad (or want Storm Shields) the Sanguinary Guard are better, IMO.
Land Speeder: They
Bike Squad: are
Land Speeder Scout: the
Attack Bike Squad: SAME!
Baal Predator: Hey cool a fast predator With Scouts. And can take Heavy Flamer Sponsons, as well as losing its TL Asscault Cannon for a Flamestorm Cannon. With an 18” scout move and a 12” move on the first turn, you should be able to torch something on turn 1. Rather expensive for something you're gonna throw away, though. What weirds me out is how the guard equivalents are more expensive and less armoured than this guy. I suppose that is par for the course, though.
Heavy Support:
Vindicator: Aight so pretty much the same except...wait a second...why is it 30 points more expensive!? Wait is that...my yes, it's fast! Pretty cool, as it probably means you get to shoot on turn 1 with this guy with the added bonus that, since it only has one real gun, your opponent will always needs 6s to hit in CC. Only thing I'm left wondering about is if I want to be lobbing demolisher pie plates when my army is made to get into CC.
Predator: The freakin'
Whirlwind: same!
Devastators: The same except...cheaper heavy weapon all around. Makes sense, vanilla devs are somewhat overcosted. Long Fangs were the beginning of a trend, I guess.
Stormraven: Whooooa there. Carries a Dread + up to 12 models with Termies + Ass Mars counting as 2 each, is a fast skimmer (can drop things like a valk if moving more than 12”), has the assault vehicle rule and ignore the second D6 from melta weapons. Has AV12 all around, which is nothing spectacular. What is crazy, though, is the weaponry – a TL Multi-Melta, a TL Assault Cannon and 4 S8 Ap1 missiles base, with the option of adding hurricane bolter sponsons. It's definitely gonna be public enemy number 1 with all that firepower and cargo. But they didn't make a model for it. Did I mention that it has power of the machine spirit? I don't really think that was necessary, but there it is lol. Means you can nuke a vehicle with the MM and then eat into a squad with the Hurricane Bolters and the Ass Cannon even after having moved 12 inches.
In any event, clearly a powerful model. You're limited to 3 (which matters in larger games) and someone who fills it up to the brim is really banking on it surviving. Whether this thing gets blown out of the sky early or not will have a deciding influence in many games, and even if you blow it up, there remains the cargo within!
Dedicated Transports:
Rhino: Hmm...15 points more, but gets the “Fast” rule. IMO it is totally worth it, helps your marines get into combat faster. Other than that, it's a Rhino!
Razorback: Like the Rhino, 15 points more expensive because it is fast. It is, in every other way, the same. Oh, except that the upgrade to a TL Heavy Flamer is free instead of costing 25 points. Also, remember that the assault squad can drop its jump packs to get a 35 point discount for any transport! Plus it can take a meltagun for every 5 guys. In the end, that means you pay 130 points for 5 assault marines in a fast Razorback with a TL HF and a meltagun inside. This would be my first go for a Troops choice, except maybe for Sang Guard if I have Dante.
Drop Pod: The same.
Land Raiders: The same. Remember, assault squads can get these at the same discount if they lose their jump packs. Oh and right. They all have the Deep Strike rule at no extra cost. Again, having the option at a certain cost would make this sense, but this has me puzzled. In any event, I don't see this as a particularly good idea to be honest. The chances of scattering and getting a mishap scare me too much to try doing it. Plus, you can't assault out of it the turn it deep strikes so it is not that phenomenal – it gets you close to the enemy without letting you actually use what's inside to wreak havoc. Could be funny if used with a Locator Beacon, though.
Now for some general thoughts on the book – there are quite a few powerful things in there. Having most of your vehicles be fast (especially the cheap transports) is quite nice, but the cost of vehicles have been upped accordingly which helps mitigate this problem. That is the general theme of the book, too – everything is very expensive points-wise (or almost everything). They have many abilities that make their troops killier/harder to kill but points spent on those abilities are points not spent on having more bodies on the table. An exception (imo) is the assault squad in a razorback. It's true that you don't get the bolters of regular Tac Squad, but instead you get a Meltagun (whereas the Tac Squad needs 10 boys to do that) and the TL HF will take care of swarms with ease – tank shock them into a nice clump and then fire away. Bonus points for having a melta gun inside.
This book obviously wants to get in your face and beat the crap out of you in CC with furious charge and preferred enemy flying around. Against these guys, you'll get a turn before they hit your lines (well, 2 if you go first). If you don't whittle them down at range, it will be a large problem. Their biggest focus will be on popping open transports – without the proper anti-tank, the death company will be reduced to futilely clawing at the sides of your opponent's transports. Luckily, melta guns are everywhere (probably more common than in the regular C:SM) and Libby Dreads + Mephiston have the powers necessary to get into combat with vehicles quickly, as well as the strength to tear them open. On top of that, they also have pretty much all the regular marine staples for popping transports open, as well as cheaper Devastators.
I'm also a big fan of Fast Vindicators, and I think that they will become an attractive choice now. That said, there is still the problem of nuking your own guys.
The Plethora of Dreads available will also change how we do things a little bit; with those things getting into combat quickly (especially the Librarian one), you'll need squads capable of fighting back if you aren't hunkering down in vehicles.
The Stormraven doesn't help things – it helps get a large amount of your army into the thick of it. I'm wondering if putting the Sanguinor (or Mephiston) in one of those will be effective...probably better with Mephiston than with Sang simply because you're wasting his “aura” thing if he goes in alone. The Raven is also armed to the teeth, but all that means is that you have even more incentive to blow it up.
What can I say? It's a damn good codex where you will see many games decided by the second turn, simply because of how hard they can hit you. Tau and Necrons will have a hard time against these guys – when the marines inside transports are moving 18” instead of 12” on turn 1, and another 18” on turn 2, that is the movement a regular Marine army would get in 3 turns. Everything is faster and ferocious.
That said, it's not all bad – psychic defence will help a lot against Libby Dreads and Mephiston, and armies like Nids who want to get in CC stand a good chance. All of their MCs wreck Dreads, and all of their boneswords will make short work of anything that doesn't have EW, and will also ignore all the FNP and 2+ Armour Saves that are prevalent in this book. Venomthropes are also golden against this book.
Space Wolves will also do fine, because they have great psyker defence and many of their psychic powers screw with the mobility of the enemy. Gonna be cool to see Thunderwolves going up against Death Company, that's for sure! Most marine chapters will probably come out of this ok.
Eldar have the mobility to dance around the angels, but for how long remains to be decided. In combat, things like Seer Councils will still prove to be a pain in the arse and they will demolish dreads. They also have (arguably, except maybe for Njal) the best psyker defence in the game which will no doubt help a lot against Mephiston, Libby Dreads and the like. With all their skimmers moving around at cruising speed it will be hard for the angels to pin them down. Dark Eldar will be similar that way.
So, in conclusion, they're a Marines chapter that is much faster in pretty much every way. Armies that do well against the other flavours will probably see many of the same things, except maybe a little sooner in the battle. They will undoubtedly kick ass and it seems that, contrary to the Space Wolves, there are only advantages when compared to the C:SM codex. Some of the toys are lacking (Thunderfire, some special characters) but otherwise it is the Marines Codex plus a bunch of other things.
Lastly, some tentative lists because I can't help but make some:
The Sanguinator – 1500 points
The Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host – 275
Sanguinary Guard – 230
-Chapter Banner
Sanguinary Priest – 75
-Jump Pack
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Might of Heroes
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Blood Lance
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Pretty simple list – everything moves forward on turn one (either 18” or 12” + D6) and pops smoke if it can. The Sanguinary Guard and the Sanguinor have a 2+ Sv with FNP thanks to the Priest, and each of the Guard have 4 attacks base thanks to the Sanguinor + the Banner. They also have Furious Charge, which is always nice, especially with master crafted power weapons. Meanwhile, the dreads provide the heavy lifting, in the sense that they go crush vehicles when possible; they can also throw themselves into combats that can't scratch their front armour of 13.
The Sanguinor will probably try and stay close to the Priest + Guard, mostly so he can get furious charge – 6 attacks with WS8, S6 at I7 ignoring armour saves, re-rolling to hit and to wound while making you re-roll successful invulnerable saves is beastly. This is one of the few guys I would trust to take on whatever comes his way, on his own. Ghazgkull and the Swarmlord ain't sheeeeeet. /Clay Davis As a bonus, that +1 to attack will apply to the Dreads if they are close enough too.
Biggest weakness here is a certain lack of anti-tank; my Dreads have to get into CC to do anything (which admittedly, is a lot) and otherwise all I have is 3 meltaguns. I could lose one of the Dreads for 2 MM/HF Speeders or 3 MM Attack bikes, which would help in that department and totally go with the “speed” theme.
You'll also notice all the Libby Dreads have a different power – in case I go up against a particularly nasty foe, I can buff the Sanguinor with extra attacks or preferred enemy if need be. The Wings of Sanguinius are too good to pass up to not give it to all of them, though.
Ok, one more list:
Dante – 225
Sanguinary Guard – 230
-Chapter Banner
Stormraven – 230
-TL Multi-melta, TL Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Vindicator – 145
Vindicator - 145
5 scoring units in this list, and plenty of anti-horde – the Vindies can also double as anti-tank and the Stormraven is also quite good at opening transports and the like. With absolutely everyone mounted in vehicles, you're in a way ignoring your opponent's anti-infantry firepower. The “death star” as it were is definitely not as scary, but you're able to spread around your firepower around much better now and will have little to no trouble cracking multiple tanks a turn. Weaknesses include not having a model for the Stormraven, and not being as exciting (for me) as the first list. Any list without a Librarian Dreadnought is going to have trouble making me satisfied.
Alright, so, that was a lot of work. I will add to this thread after we actually get to play against the codex, and since that first list only requires me to buy 7 infantry models, I might even get to play with them as well lol. All thoughts, comments, criticisms and other are all the welcome!
Alright, there you have it! Looks like like the Blood Angels codex will be very fun indeed when paided with the new killer models!
I got a long look at the Codex yesterday and have spent the day painting and thinking about the different strengths and weaknesses. In case you don't feel like reading the next 5000 words, I'll just say this: it is a powerful codex with most of the options of the 'Nilla codex and a cornucopia of other ones. These guys are fast and furious, but the downside is that they cost a lot of points and so you won't be fielding lists of many models if you want to start using all their toys. Aggressive players will love the options, and some other players will probably begin to wonder why they still bother. All I ask is that everyone takes my thoughts with a grain of salt because I haven't played with any of this!
Without further ado...
HQ:
Dante: The head honcho himself...not too shabby! Has a 2+/4++ and a Jump Pack, but no EW (despite being what...the oldest living space marine?). He also is a vanilla (master crafted) S4 power weapon, with quite a few attacks at least. Of note is that he is I6 instead of 5...guess hes been taking his Geratol. His Death Mask is pretty awesome, letting you neuter an enemy IC at least somewhat. He doesn't scatter when deep striking, which is quite nice. Hmm, here's a thought...how about deep striking him with 30 Death Company! He also gives his squad Hit and Run which is pretty sweet, and lets you take Sanguinary Guard as troops which is cool because it's an excuse to get a ton of those awesome models in there. While not as Killy as some of the other choices, he is a great force multiplier without being over the top.
Astorath the Grim: Whoa. Awesome looking model. Very powerful in CC (and with a 2+/3++), S6 ignore armour saves, makes your DC awesome and has a jump pack. If you plan on taking DC he his a great choice, but if not some of his uber abilities are wasted.
Mephiston: Well, his stat line makes him out to be quite the monster. On par with the Swarm Lord actually. Has 3 Psychic powers, one makes him S10, the other lets him move like jump infantry and the last gives preferred enemy – he also has a force weapon, oh and he fleets. He also has a power that forces a Ld test at -4 on a character – if he fails, Meph gets to re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls. Things to note: he does not have an invulnerable save, nor is he an independent character. That means he is on his own, unless your transport him...to be honest I can easily consider putting him in a Land Raider or a Storm Raven to go wreak havoc alone. He is one of the strongest CC characters in the game, but lacks a few of the tools necessary to get there in one piece. You probably get one turn to blow him away, because until he gets up close you can bet he'll be hiding behind terrain/vehicles – and with cover, he will be dodging the low ap high S shots half of the time.
That said, many of his abilities are psychic powers and as such good psyker defence will make him considerably easier to deal with. There is also the chance of PotW, which he has no protection whatsoever against. This guy is easily one of the stronger characters out there, but has shortcomings that can be exploited – plasma/melta to the face will still give him headaches. So do invulnerable saves; popular CC choices like Seer Councils and TH/SS Terminators will hurt him – in fact, Mephiston will very likely die to 5 of the latter, even if he gets the assault (and his preferred enemy power)! He is great at mushing vehicles, though. All in all he is quite nasty, but the lack of IC status and an invulnerable save makes him much more manageable that I thought at first. Oh yeah, he also doesn't have EW so things like boneswords, force weapons, wraithcannons and the like will have fun sending him into the warp or whatever.
Tycho: At first glance, the DC version of him looks much nastier – it is, except for the part where (once again) they took away his IC status. I don't think he's super in normal mode, and rather balanced in DC mode. He attacks like an MC but only at S4 – being DC is great because, by being relentless, he can use his Sternguard ammo to the fullest!
The Sanguinor: Ooooh baby. This dude looks rockin'. Ok so he's S5 with a MC power wep – so far so good. He's I6! He has a 2+/3++ Sv...he also has Eternal Warrior which freakin' owns. He gets to pick an enemy HQ and gets re-rolls to hit and to wound against hit – he is also WS8. Not only that, all friendly units within 6” get +1 attacks. He turns one of your Sarges into a Nob, and also forces invulnerable saves to be re-rolled when he does a wound. The downside? He costs nearly as much as a Swarmlord and he is not. An. Independent. Character! Like Mephiston, he is on his own. So despite being his own kind of badass, he is on his own.
Let's compare him to Mephiston; both are/can be jump infantry, and Mephiston has Fleet. On average, Meph will be faster (although he cannot deep strike vs the Sanguinor's Descent of Angels). This one goes to Mephiston, but not by much. At range, for what it's worth, Meph has a Plasma pistol vs the Sanguinor's nothing, so another point for Meph but it is of little importance. Survivability at range is a tricky subject – the Sanguinor is likelier to get torrented to death by lower Strength shenanigans, while Meph is obviously much less resistant against low ap weaponry like meltas, plasma, lascannons, etc. If we take cover into effect, though, Meph will have that sweet 4+ save which is almost a 3+, and has 5 wounds instead of 3. With lots of terrain Meph has a bit of an advantage, but without the Sanguinor is much, much better. Advantage: the Sanguinor. In CC, Meph is all about insta-killing bozos with his S10 and tearing vehicles to shreds; he's also all about beating the crap out of your Hqs. The Sanguinor, on the other hand, is much better at killing elite invulnerable infantry – you send him in to take out Seer Councils, TH/SS Terminators and the like, because Mephiston definitely can't.handle them as well. It also goes without saying that against your opponent's toughest CC models (where these two guys will be going), the Sang's 3+ Invul will make the difference. In all honesty it is a toss-up; that said, if your list already has enough S10 in it (to take out Nobz, Thunderwolves, vehicles) the Sanguinor is a very specialized HQ who will eat through the hardest units. The buffs he gives to your army in various forms are pretty cool, it is just unfortunate that he cannot join a squad. Him with Sanguinary Guard will be very fun to see played together.
Gabriel Seth: Sweet, it's the cheapest HQ SC. Well...he's actually pretty decent but nothing crazy. Turns out his chainsword doubles his strength, strikes at initiative but does not ignore armour save. It's Rending though. He can also forgo his regular attacks and automatically hit everyone he's in contact with once, and all rolls to hit of 1 directed towards him in assault result in that unit taking a S4 hit. He's nothing special as far as survivability goes, but he's going to make you pay when he gets into assault with you. He also makes you fail red thirst rolls half of the time, which is pretty good; half your army will have furious charge and fearless!
Captain: Alright so pretty much the same thing as the Marines Codex. Overcosted a bit, and definitely not as attractive a choice as the other HQs. I'd probably take the Reclusiarch over this guy most of the time if I wanted a CC HQ.
Reclusiarch: A Chaplain with 3 Wounds who makes your Death Company re-roll to wound as well. Great if you want to go that route, and a balanced part of an all-DC list (as balanced as that would be, haha).
Librarian: Standard Equipment, but different powers. So let's get crackin:
Sanguine Sword: Cool, so you're S10...but still keep your I and weapon. Very good power.
Blood Lance: Not as “screwy” as Jaws of the World Wolf (the random range helps limit it), but should be useful in a mech-heavy environment. Still, a free S8 Ap1 Lance Hit is never bad.
Unnamed: Gives a 5+ Cover to all within 6”. Same as Storm Caller, and really awesome when you want to shield vehicles but don't want to use your smoke launchers. Nothing flashy, but I really like it.
Smite: Same as the Marines Codex. Can be annoying, I guess, but some of these other powers are just so much better.
The Quickening: Same as the Marines Codex. Again, nothing spectacular...except when applied to the Librarian Dreadnought. I10, S10 attacks that ignore armour saves. Plus the Dread now has fleet. Lets you turn Nobz, Thunderwolves and all manner of multi-wound bozos into a fine paste before they get to do anything.
Unleash Rage: Hey, preferred enemy for a whole unit. This is quite the fine power. Nothing flashy either, but PE is always great.
Fear of the Darkness: Take a Ld test at -2 and if you fail you break. This is decent, but it is a shooting attack meaning you can only assault the thing that just ran away. Not bad if your target is already far away though. Very good against squads that like to hug their board edge, like Broadsides or Devastators.
Might of Heroes: Give +D3 attacks to one Model. Pretty good on the Dreadnoughts, or maybe if you feel like buffing one of your characters.
Blood Boil: Hey, a free wound with no AS allowed. And if you roll 5 or less for the Psychic Test you pick where the wound goes in the targeted unit. Sounds good, but won't happen all that often (maybe 30% of the time?) so you can't rely on it. Still great to snipe out powerfists and the like.
Blood Stasis: Pick a unit, and it has to take a Ld test to do anything on your opponent's turn. If they fail, they stay put Not bad, but generally you're looking at an 8-9 Ld so it's not fantastic. Pretty great against 'Nids though if you need to stop a unit of Gaunts or Raveners or something.
Wings of Sanguinius: Here's my favourite one. Turns the Libby into Jump Infantry.
*Phew *. So, the real winners? For a Librarian, I think the 5+ Cover Sv power is golden, as is the Blood Lance. Unleash Rage is also one I like a lot.
Honour Guard: Alright, so basically a command squad from the Marines Codex except instead of the squad having FNP, it gives FNP and Furious Charge to everyone within 6” including the squad. Something I'd really like to hear the rationale for. But anywho, otherwise the same, great if you want a squad you can customize for CC while not spending too much.
Elites:
Terminators: These guys are pretty much the same as in the C:SM Codex, so I don't have much to add here. I don't think they do quite enough, as they are stuck between CC specialist and having some pretty nice ranged weapons. Also, they are plasma/power weapon bait.
Assault Terminators: Same as usual except..what's this? Looks like you pay a 5 point premium to get the TH/SS version. Makes sense, as they are superior in most cases (except maybe if you have something that gives furious Charge...oh wait, the angels do in spades lol). Not much else to say that is new here.
Sanguinary Priest: Oh, dear. Yeah, these guys rule. For 50 pts he gives FNP + Furious Charge to everyone within 6”. That's quite good – it gets a little pricy to give him a Jump Pack but well worth it if you're wanting to extend the life of your jump troops.
Corbulo: Alright, so he's definitely better in combat than his generic counterparts and gives you one (1) free re-roll a game, applicable anywhere. You can re-roll to see who goes first, or whatever, if that's your fancy. The game-breaker (imo) is applying that single re-roll to see if the game ends. That...is huge. Games are won or lost depending on whether or not the game ends on turn 5 (or 6, 7) and good old 'Corb lets you screw around with that. He also gives FNP to himself on 2+ instead of the regular 4+. The only downside is that he can't take a jump pack, so I'd use him as part of a land raider-oriented assault force, or maybe in a rhino so that his FNP/FC bubble is huge.
Chaplain: Hey he isn't an HQ choice. Cool beans. Means you can have 3 chaplains if you want I guess? I'm pretty nonplussed about this.
Furioso Dreadnought: Holy plethora of options, batman! At his most “vanilla” he is similar to an Ironclad but has WS6 and is..cheaper. Can swap his two DCCs for Blood Talons, who are (S6) lightning claws who give you an extra attack for every unsaved wound you cause. This configuration will wreck through infantry squads, pretty much always forever. He can also grab a Frag Cannon, which is a S6 AP- Assault 2 Rending Template. Yeah, he's good. Can also take a Magna-Grapple which lets you pull a Scorpion on enemy vehicles. Pretty effective because it will probably drag whatever vehicle you hit into assault range.
Librarian Dreadnought: Probably my favourite choice of the book. Can pick two of the Psychic Powers I mentioned before, has a Psychic Hood, a S6 Force Weapon and is ironclad. Not too pricey, comparable to what a Venerable Dread costs. Definitely a candidate for Wings of Sanguinius or the Quickening which can give him a potential 18” assault range. Give him a Magna Grapple (yes, you can do that too) and he can potentially hit vehicles 24” away. Ooooohhhh yeeeaaah /duffman Pick the Blood Lance and he really becomes a vehicle wrecker.
Dreadnought: Same as before. A great choice if you ask me. But there are greater, lol...
Techmarine: It's a Techmarine. No cool options like the Space Wolves Iron Priest, so I can't say I'm impressed. If you want a bunch of heavy wep servitors he's golden, though.
Sternguard: Nothing new here. Still rather good, they just cannot ever be made scoring. Sad, but yeah, I still see no problem with them.
Sanguinary Guard: First thing's first: awesome looking models. Pretty sweet rules too, as they can take a Chapter Banner and are armed with 12” storm bolters and master crafted PWs. Artificer armour is the bomb, and so is having jump packs. That said, 5 of them cost as much as a Terminator Squad and can't take any extra bodies or invulnerable saves. I suspect lots of AP2 weaponry will be headed their way. I like them a lot, but really the only reason to take them over Termies is for their mobility. Well that and you can get them up to 5 attacks on the assault each with the Sanguinor and a Banner. Final though: I really wish the armour didn't have nipples.
Troops:
Death Company: Whoa! 3-30 models! That's a spicy meatball. Furious Charge, Relentless, FNP and Fearless FTW. They also have bolters, bolt pistols and CCW which combined with Relentless means you can pump your bolter (instead of your bolt pistol) into a squad before assaulting it and still get the +1 attack for extra CC weapon. You can give them Jump Packs which makes them a bit pricy, time will tell if it is useful. Fists/PWs are an option and so you can get a ton of attacks with this squad at S5 + I5 which will ignore armour saves. Their only downside is that they cannot score so you're going to have to spend some points on other bozos to actually take the objectives!
Lemartes: Kind of like a Reclusiarch but who is an upgrade character. When he takes a wound he goes beserk, becoming much better. This is a great ability because, as part of a squad, you can just assign him a single wound and watch him go bananas. A great choice!
Death Company Dreadnought: A crazed Dreadnought. Metal as shit. Close to what the Furioso gets, but more attacks and has rage. Also has a hidden cost of 5 DC per Dread, so you're going to need some of those as well.
Tactical Squad: Pretty standard fare, except lets you take Land Raiders as dedicated transports as well. Means you can have a bunch of Raiders if you feel like it. Nothing new here otherwise.
Assault Squad: Bahaha. At first glance it may look the same. Except it can a few extra upgrades like Meltaguns/Melta Pistols. Oh and you can take their jump packs off which, instead of giving you a free Rhino, gives you a 35-point discount towards any dedicated transport. Makes sense, seeming as how their Rhinos are more expensive. As it stands though, you can get assault squads with tank busting potential. Which is great! More about why these are the best (scoring) troops choice in the book when I get to dedicated transports.
Scout Squad: Same thing as the SM Codex once again. Nothing crazy.
Fast Attack:
Vanguard: Hey cool they're cheaper than the C:SM ones. Does that mean we will see them more often? It's possible, but unless you're going for a large squad (or want Storm Shields) the Sanguinary Guard are better, IMO.
Land Speeder: They
Bike Squad: are
Land Speeder Scout: the
Attack Bike Squad: SAME!
Baal Predator: Hey cool a fast predator With Scouts. And can take Heavy Flamer Sponsons, as well as losing its TL Asscault Cannon for a Flamestorm Cannon. With an 18” scout move and a 12” move on the first turn, you should be able to torch something on turn 1. Rather expensive for something you're gonna throw away, though. What weirds me out is how the guard equivalents are more expensive and less armoured than this guy. I suppose that is par for the course, though.
Heavy Support:
Vindicator: Aight so pretty much the same except...wait a second...why is it 30 points more expensive!? Wait is that...my yes, it's fast! Pretty cool, as it probably means you get to shoot on turn 1 with this guy with the added bonus that, since it only has one real gun, your opponent will always needs 6s to hit in CC. Only thing I'm left wondering about is if I want to be lobbing demolisher pie plates when my army is made to get into CC.
Predator: The freakin'
Whirlwind: same!
Devastators: The same except...cheaper heavy weapon all around. Makes sense, vanilla devs are somewhat overcosted. Long Fangs were the beginning of a trend, I guess.
Stormraven: Whooooa there. Carries a Dread + up to 12 models with Termies + Ass Mars counting as 2 each, is a fast skimmer (can drop things like a valk if moving more than 12”), has the assault vehicle rule and ignore the second D6 from melta weapons. Has AV12 all around, which is nothing spectacular. What is crazy, though, is the weaponry – a TL Multi-Melta, a TL Assault Cannon and 4 S8 Ap1 missiles base, with the option of adding hurricane bolter sponsons. It's definitely gonna be public enemy number 1 with all that firepower and cargo. But they didn't make a model for it. Did I mention that it has power of the machine spirit? I don't really think that was necessary, but there it is lol. Means you can nuke a vehicle with the MM and then eat into a squad with the Hurricane Bolters and the Ass Cannon even after having moved 12 inches.
In any event, clearly a powerful model. You're limited to 3 (which matters in larger games) and someone who fills it up to the brim is really banking on it surviving. Whether this thing gets blown out of the sky early or not will have a deciding influence in many games, and even if you blow it up, there remains the cargo within!
Dedicated Transports:
Rhino: Hmm...15 points more, but gets the “Fast” rule. IMO it is totally worth it, helps your marines get into combat faster. Other than that, it's a Rhino!
Razorback: Like the Rhino, 15 points more expensive because it is fast. It is, in every other way, the same. Oh, except that the upgrade to a TL Heavy Flamer is free instead of costing 25 points. Also, remember that the assault squad can drop its jump packs to get a 35 point discount for any transport! Plus it can take a meltagun for every 5 guys. In the end, that means you pay 130 points for 5 assault marines in a fast Razorback with a TL HF and a meltagun inside. This would be my first go for a Troops choice, except maybe for Sang Guard if I have Dante.
Drop Pod: The same.
Land Raiders: The same. Remember, assault squads can get these at the same discount if they lose their jump packs. Oh and right. They all have the Deep Strike rule at no extra cost. Again, having the option at a certain cost would make this sense, but this has me puzzled. In any event, I don't see this as a particularly good idea to be honest. The chances of scattering and getting a mishap scare me too much to try doing it. Plus, you can't assault out of it the turn it deep strikes so it is not that phenomenal – it gets you close to the enemy without letting you actually use what's inside to wreak havoc. Could be funny if used with a Locator Beacon, though.
Now for some general thoughts on the book – there are quite a few powerful things in there. Having most of your vehicles be fast (especially the cheap transports) is quite nice, but the cost of vehicles have been upped accordingly which helps mitigate this problem. That is the general theme of the book, too – everything is very expensive points-wise (or almost everything). They have many abilities that make their troops killier/harder to kill but points spent on those abilities are points not spent on having more bodies on the table. An exception (imo) is the assault squad in a razorback. It's true that you don't get the bolters of regular Tac Squad, but instead you get a Meltagun (whereas the Tac Squad needs 10 boys to do that) and the TL HF will take care of swarms with ease – tank shock them into a nice clump and then fire away. Bonus points for having a melta gun inside.
This book obviously wants to get in your face and beat the crap out of you in CC with furious charge and preferred enemy flying around. Against these guys, you'll get a turn before they hit your lines (well, 2 if you go first). If you don't whittle them down at range, it will be a large problem. Their biggest focus will be on popping open transports – without the proper anti-tank, the death company will be reduced to futilely clawing at the sides of your opponent's transports. Luckily, melta guns are everywhere (probably more common than in the regular C:SM) and Libby Dreads + Mephiston have the powers necessary to get into combat with vehicles quickly, as well as the strength to tear them open. On top of that, they also have pretty much all the regular marine staples for popping transports open, as well as cheaper Devastators.
I'm also a big fan of Fast Vindicators, and I think that they will become an attractive choice now. That said, there is still the problem of nuking your own guys.
The Plethora of Dreads available will also change how we do things a little bit; with those things getting into combat quickly (especially the Librarian one), you'll need squads capable of fighting back if you aren't hunkering down in vehicles.
The Stormraven doesn't help things – it helps get a large amount of your army into the thick of it. I'm wondering if putting the Sanguinor (or Mephiston) in one of those will be effective...probably better with Mephiston than with Sang simply because you're wasting his “aura” thing if he goes in alone. The Raven is also armed to the teeth, but all that means is that you have even more incentive to blow it up.
What can I say? It's a damn good codex where you will see many games decided by the second turn, simply because of how hard they can hit you. Tau and Necrons will have a hard time against these guys – when the marines inside transports are moving 18” instead of 12” on turn 1, and another 18” on turn 2, that is the movement a regular Marine army would get in 3 turns. Everything is faster and ferocious.
That said, it's not all bad – psychic defence will help a lot against Libby Dreads and Mephiston, and armies like Nids who want to get in CC stand a good chance. All of their MCs wreck Dreads, and all of their boneswords will make short work of anything that doesn't have EW, and will also ignore all the FNP and 2+ Armour Saves that are prevalent in this book. Venomthropes are also golden against this book.
Space Wolves will also do fine, because they have great psyker defence and many of their psychic powers screw with the mobility of the enemy. Gonna be cool to see Thunderwolves going up against Death Company, that's for sure! Most marine chapters will probably come out of this ok.
Eldar have the mobility to dance around the angels, but for how long remains to be decided. In combat, things like Seer Councils will still prove to be a pain in the arse and they will demolish dreads. They also have (arguably, except maybe for Njal) the best psyker defence in the game which will no doubt help a lot against Mephiston, Libby Dreads and the like. With all their skimmers moving around at cruising speed it will be hard for the angels to pin them down. Dark Eldar will be similar that way.
So, in conclusion, they're a Marines chapter that is much faster in pretty much every way. Armies that do well against the other flavours will probably see many of the same things, except maybe a little sooner in the battle. They will undoubtedly kick ass and it seems that, contrary to the Space Wolves, there are only advantages when compared to the C:SM codex. Some of the toys are lacking (Thunderfire, some special characters) but otherwise it is the Marines Codex plus a bunch of other things.
Lastly, some tentative lists because I can't help but make some:
The Sanguinator – 1500 points
The Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host – 275
Sanguinary Guard – 230
-Chapter Banner
Sanguinary Priest – 75
-Jump Pack
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Might of Heroes
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage
Librarian Dreadnought – 175
-Wings of Sanguinius, Blood Lance
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Assault Squad – 130
-Meltagun, Trade Jump Packs for Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
Pretty simple list – everything moves forward on turn one (either 18” or 12” + D6) and pops smoke if it can. The Sanguinary Guard and the Sanguinor have a 2+ Sv with FNP thanks to the Priest, and each of the Guard have 4 attacks base thanks to the Sanguinor + the Banner. They also have Furious Charge, which is always nice, especially with master crafted power weapons. Meanwhile, the dreads provide the heavy lifting, in the sense that they go crush vehicles when possible; they can also throw themselves into combats that can't scratch their front armour of 13.
The Sanguinor will probably try and stay close to the Priest + Guard, mostly so he can get furious charge – 6 attacks with WS8, S6 at I7 ignoring armour saves, re-rolling to hit and to wound while making you re-roll successful invulnerable saves is beastly. This is one of the few guys I would trust to take on whatever comes his way, on his own. Ghazgkull and the Swarmlord ain't sheeeeeet. /Clay Davis As a bonus, that +1 to attack will apply to the Dreads if they are close enough too.
Biggest weakness here is a certain lack of anti-tank; my Dreads have to get into CC to do anything (which admittedly, is a lot) and otherwise all I have is 3 meltaguns. I could lose one of the Dreads for 2 MM/HF Speeders or 3 MM Attack bikes, which would help in that department and totally go with the “speed” theme.
You'll also notice all the Libby Dreads have a different power – in case I go up against a particularly nasty foe, I can buff the Sanguinor with extra attacks or preferred enemy if need be. The Wings of Sanguinius are too good to pass up to not give it to all of them, though.
Ok, one more list:
Dante – 225
Sanguinary Guard – 230
-Chapter Banner
Stormraven – 230
-TL Multi-melta, TL Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Assault Squad – 130
-MG, Razorback
Vindicator – 145
Vindicator - 145
5 scoring units in this list, and plenty of anti-horde – the Vindies can also double as anti-tank and the Stormraven is also quite good at opening transports and the like. With absolutely everyone mounted in vehicles, you're in a way ignoring your opponent's anti-infantry firepower. The “death star” as it were is definitely not as scary, but you're able to spread around your firepower around much better now and will have little to no trouble cracking multiple tanks a turn. Weaknesses include not having a model for the Stormraven, and not being as exciting (for me) as the first list. Any list without a Librarian Dreadnought is going to have trouble making me satisfied.
Alright, so, that was a lot of work. I will add to this thread after we actually get to play against the codex, and since that first list only requires me to buy 7 infantry models, I might even get to play with them as well lol. All thoughts, comments, criticisms and other are all the welcome!
Alright, there you have it! Looks like like the Blood Angels codex will be very fun indeed when paided with the new killer models!
... Mitch
Fantastic summary - thanks so much for your input here. I think the codex looks fun for those BA players. I'm hoping most games arent "decided by turn 2" though since that just seems to take alot of the fun out of the game.
ReplyDeleteI like how this new codex is pretty much the normal codex plus extras. So it seems that if you were not using the SM Codex special characters, you would be better of using this codex probably.
ReplyDeleteyou have 4 elite units in that first list you wrote ;)
ReplyDeleteOther than the first list having too many elites I thought this review was awesome.
ReplyDeleteWhy are some units better and cheaper than space marine ones, vanguard veterans are better because they have the red thirst, which is very useful in CC, and they are cheaper
ReplyDeleteNice read.
ReplyDeleteCan mephiston not join a squad for some reason? I would think not making him an IC would be a boon since now he cannot have attacks allocated directly to him in CC if he has some body bags along. Im probly the only person on the planet that hasnt had a look the BA codex though, so i may be out of place with this comment.